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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, so this is my sisters car and she has been getting intermittent CEL. The code wasn't happening frequently and a shop told her to drive and and see if it comes back. Well it did and this time the P0173 was pending. So based on what I have read here this is most likely a vacuum leak. So tonight when she came over I used the Torque app to see what her idle vac is, well it was 0.7...so needless to say there is a leak and it is pretty big. Since the engine was hot and it was getting dark I couldn't really poke around. But I was hoping someone could comment on which lines are the most likely to fail. Also, can someone confirm what is mounted on the firewall that has a barb fitting on either side of it? Not sure why there are two fittings without any lines going to them...ideas?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
So I think I figured out what those unused bard fittings are. Looking at a vacuum line diagram there appears to be a bypass air solenoid valve which looks similar to what I saw but the diagram doesn't show vent ports. Can anyone confirm if there are supposed to be vents?
 

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the barb fitting is not used on usa cars. i think it is used on rhd. those codes are classic vacuum leak, and most common would be broke 'T'. if you can find the map solenoid(it lives on the right side inner fender, way back by the hood hinge), follow the vacuum line back towards the nose of the supercharger. there is a 'T' there that i believe is the most common to break. but you will need to pull the entire intake to get at it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
My sister dropped off the car tonight and I started to poke around a little. Initially when I read remove the intake I was thinking more like airbox connections etc but this looks like I might have to remove a manifold. Is that what you were referring to? If so is this a single use seal? Just want to know what I can remove without getting stuck waiting for parts since I have a feelin the local shops won't have parts for this in stock.
 

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all the gaskets are aluminum with a thin rubber seal. while i have reused them, the entire set costs about 50 bucks. and if you get even a small air leak, you get to do the job all over. look at both intercoolers. both intercoolers have to come off, and all the parts going to them. i was looking for pics on ebay, but i cant find any. this is labor intensive. you will have parts all over the place, so find a good area you can put the parts you take off, because there will be a lot. and, like you said, local dealers wont stock any of the parts, plus, if you pay over the counter locally, i would guess the gaskets are gonna cost you well over a hundred bucks, and you will STILL have to wait for them to come in. and i doubt if any parts person has much knowledge on the millenia. no shop will stock these parts, they are all genuine only. no dealer stocks these parts, they will have to come from a regional warehouse. you would be lucky to get them in 2 weeks. expect some to be backordered. i think i posted a list of all the gaskets somewhere on this forum. almost all the nuts and bolts holding on the intake are torqued 14-18ft/lbs, so you'd better have a good in/lb torque wrench. there are 2 one way valves(green/white) and i guarantee you at least one will break. they cost about 26 bucks each, and yup, special order. if you plan on reusing the vacuum lines, expect them all to be hard and shrunk. once you remove them, dont expect them to seal good when you reinstall them. i think there are 13 solenoids, and if you mess up the vacuum lines, you will be redoing this job. there are 2(maybe 3, i forget) hoses that have internal one way valves inside, if you reverse them, the car will run like crap, and you will kill yourself trying to figger out why. these hoses have a yellow arrow on them, pay attention to how they go back on. in the first diagram, this is the vacuum line system. see the part that says cac bypass actuator? that whole assembly and the intercoolers have to come off. the second diagram shows you the one way hoses, BUT, one of them is wrong. the upper one, that goes 90 deg, is incorrect. the correct one comes off the side of the abv. the abv is the device that has the brass 'hat'. you will see the yellow arrow, if it is still there. the battery and the tray has to come out. the rear intercooler pipe has 1 or 2 nuts you cannot see, feel only. i have a full set of sockets with magnets in them that i like to use on some of these fasteners. i guarantee you the valve cover gaskets are shot, and there is gunky oil all over the place. you will need several cans of brake cleaner, i really like the crc red can. it probably costs the most, but it will outperform all the others. sometimes napa has them on sale for like 2.25, and the last time i bought them out. by now all the vacuum lines are cooked and are pretty much permanently bent into position, but you might want to get some labels just to be sure. i actually numbered where they went on the intake ports themselves with permanent laundry marker. look around on this forum, you will find some good pics of what you will be getting in to. i would guess that this job will take at least 3 weeks, a lot of that time will be spent waiting for parts
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the info. I hope to poke around some more tonight to see if I can spot a problem line before committing to removing stuff. Would just hate to remove all this stuff and find out the leak is somewhere else. Maybe I will get a couple pairs of hemostats and clamp some lines to see if the vac level comes back. At least then I could isolate a line.
 

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nope. guarantee it is at least one of the tees. the best way is to gather up all the parts, then dive in. the problem is knowing what parts to get. the car is now so old that some of the parts are nla
 

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I'd try and see if I can find the vacuum leak by first using a small propane torch (do not light) and spray propane gas all around everything, if there is a leak and it sucks in propane the idle will change. I like that method better than spraying a liquid like WD40 or something, because since propane is a gas it doesn't leave any residue or mess when you spray it around. Or you can use Carb Cleaner or something to spray around and listen for leaks.

It's also worth noting that the vacuum hose size on the Millenia S is slightly different than the standard vacuum hose you get at the local auto parts store, so it is kind of a tight fit if you get a roll of generic stuff from the auto parts store.

I'd say to get a roll of hose (search the forum, there are posts with how many feet you need and the inner and outer diameter of the hose). And a handful of T-connectors (if I recall correctly, there is also at least one straight connector). Remove the battery, battery tray, both intercoolers, and intake. Then just start replacing all the vacuum hose and T-connectors.

Be very careful if you are removing hose from the nipples of the solenoids, because the hose will be frozen onto the nipples, and you will snap the nipple off which will ruin the solenoid. So work slowly with a twisting motion on the hoses attached to plastic nipples on the solenoids, don't pull the hoses off the solenoids, twist them off gently. Those solenoids are almost a hundred dollars each.

I reuse the metal intake gaskets, and give then 2 thin coats on each side with Permatex Copper Gasket Spray. Let them dry tacky, don't install wet. This makes the job less messy the next time you need to pull the intake.



For labeling, I use either multi colored electrical tape (can get it at Harbor Freight). Or multi colored zip ties (can get it at Sears). Makes the job much faster, put the same color on each attaching end.

It also helps if you have your smartphone handy, and take pictures along the way. In case you need to refer back to the pictures during reassembly.


 

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there are 3 actual 'T' connectors, and i think 7 'Y' connectors, which actually look like a straight connector, then a branch going off in about a 45 deg angle. i think the straight connector is 2 sized. however, i think wlepse is thinking this will be a one day job, or at most, overnite. due to the age of the car, if the vacuum lines(21 feet) have never been changed, there will be leaks AFTER the job if the vacuum lines are not changed. and i guarantee you one of the green/white one way valves will break, maybe both. if i were doing this job for my sister(both cars are owned by my wife. i have nothing), i would not want her stuck on the side of the road. so i would change out a lot more stuff. and i have. if they have never been done, this car at least also needs valve cover gaskets, hoses(both coolant and breather), spark plugs, probably timing belt, if hi mileage, then water pump, motor mounts, intake boot. i would also check ALL the ball joints in the suspension, and the rack boots. the radiator is really thin, if there are any leaks, the engine will overheat really fast. i am sure at least one cv joint boot is gone, along with the bump stops on the shocks, and the dust boots. of course, brakes. if the fluid in the reservoir is black, it is long past overdue. fluid in the p/s reservoir should be red, along with atf. take a long hard look at the coolant hoses going to/from the oil cooler. then check the rear suspension. i bet every dust boot on a ball joint back there is leaking. rear suspension parts alone, just the links/ends/control arms, not shocks, will cost more than 1200. and it will have to be aligned. take a really good look, and she may want to get rid of the car. and if you have to do all the work, you may want her to, also
 

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there are 3 actual 'T' connectors, and i think 7 'Y' connectors, which actually look like a straight connector, then a branch going off in about a 45 deg angle. i think the straight connector is 2 sized. however, i think wlepse is thinking this will be a one day job, or at most, overnite. due to the age of the car, if the vacuum lines(21 feet) have never been changed, there will be leaks AFTER the job if the vacuum lines are not changed. and i guarantee you one of the green/white one way valves will break, maybe both. if i were doing this job for my sister(both cars are owned by my wife. i have nothing), i would not want her stuck on the side of the road. so i would change out a lot more stuff. and i have. if they have never been done, this car at least also needs valve cover gaskets, hoses(both coolant and breather), spark plugs, probably timing belt, if hi mileage, then water pump, motor mounts, intake boot. i would also check ALL the ball joints in the suspension, and the rack boots. the radiator is really thin, if there are any leaks, the engine will overheat really fast. i am sure at least one cv joint boot is gone, along with the bump stops on the shocks, and the dust boots. of course, brakes. if the fluid in the reservoir is black, it is long past overdue. fluid in the p/s reservoir should be red, along with atf. take a long hard look at the coolant hoses going to/from the oil cooler. then check the rear suspension. i bet every dust boot on a ball joint back there is leaking. rear suspension parts alone, just the links/ends/control arms, not shocks, will cost more than 1200. and it will have to be aligned. take a really good look, and she may want to get rid of the car. and if you have to do all the work, you may want her to, also
I love my sister, but no way I'd do that laundry list of stuff on anyone's car (except my own).

But one good point is that if you are going to tear down the intake and change the vacuum hoses, and the coolant hoses are originally, that would be a good time to change them. That gets a bit expensive, because I would only recommend replacing all those little hoses with OE hoses, and not try to get a big spool of generic coolant hose for the replacement, because of all the small and tight bends on the OE hoses. I'd probably go generic for the vacuum hose, but OE only for the coolant hoses.

I'd also replace both $5 bearings on the both of the pulleys for the Serpentine Belts. That will save you a $600 repair bill later, because if they lock up you will trash the Crank Pulley/Harmonic Balancer (happened to me).
 

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and i agree. however, knowing my sisters(there are 4), and how they abuse their cars, i would do the work, but they would have to leave the car for a really long time. and i am retired, so i can work on them any time. but when i get started on a car, i like to change out other stuff that is related. i know i would go after the valve cover gaskets. might as well do spark plugs, too. and coolant hoses, but i would change out all of them. remember, the old one you leave will be the first to go. and all the breather hoses would be hard as rock, and leak. it would go on and on. and the very first thing i would do is look over the car really well, list out ALL the parts needing to be changed, then present her with a list. i wouldnt waste time looking up cost for all the parts unless i get approval. and i would add at least 1 week on to the est time for repair.

on another note, i am about to change a fuel injector, so i have a list on all the gaskets needed for the intake. i just ordered them from tasca
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I did do spark plugs on this a while back and changed a coil pack or two. She also recently had a shop replace here shocks/struts in all four corners. I will try to take a closer look at things this weekend and give her some idea on what it is going to cost and how much time it will take. My main problem is the days are getting short now, so I have about an hour of daylight after I get home from work and my ride (a 2001 Audi A4) has a parasitic draw I have to diagnose. Plus add in my sons b-day in a couple of weeks and I don't have much time. I think I will start with the propane idea and try to narrow the search for the currently bad line. If there is a chance this might be a full teardown and she doesn't have the time to let me do it or the money to have someone else then I might try to just get it going enough to get more trade value. Here's hoping it is something easy and right out in the open.
 

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my money is on that tee that is right near the snout of the supercharger. if you tug on the vacuum line, it will come out almost enough to get at. kinda like a hot girl in a mini skirt sitting in the passenger seat
 

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Hey Ken, does the 2.5L also have a hot girl in a mini skirt sitting in the passenger seat? :)
TomK
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
OK I have a few questions. First when using propane the idle should jump significantly right? If so what is the lag time typically? I sprayed all over and haven't gotten the idle to budge. You can really smell the propane so I think there should be plenty to get a reaction out of the idle. Also I am not used to superchargers, is there a slight sucking sound from them at idle? I am hearing a hissing/sucking sound in the area of that T but spraying propane seems to have no effect. Thoughts?

Update: Found out that if I clamp off the line going to the front intake manifold most of the hissing goes away. I see from the diagram this is T to the rear manifold and back to the T and the T mentioned previously. Going to take it to a local shop to see what his quote will be since I don't think my sister has the time for me to do this a couple hours here and there. Plus the longer it takes the more likely I am to forget where all the screws go.
 

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your much better off just pulling the intake pipe work off and having a proper look at all the vacuum lines. its not that hard. Front intercooler off, battery and tray out, rear intercooler off. a whole bunch of nuts and bolts then lift off the intake assembly from the supercharger.
 

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OK I have a few questions. First when using propane the idle should jump significantly right? If so what is the lag time typically? I sprayed all over and haven't gotten the idle to budge. You can really smell the propane so I think there should be plenty to get a reaction out of the idle. Also I am not used to superchargers, is there a slight sucking sound from them at idle? I am hearing a hissing/sucking sound in the area of that T but spraying propane seems to have no effect. Thoughts?

Update: Found out that if I clamp off the line going to the front intake manifold most of the hissing goes away. I see from the diagram this is T to the rear manifold and back to the T and the T mentioned previously. Going to take it to a local shop to see what his quote will be since I don't think my sister has the time for me to do this a couple hours here and there. Plus the longer it takes the more likely I am to forget where all the screws go.
If you have located the hissing, I'd suggest changing that T and/or vacuum hose yourself.

The reason is because a local shop will have never seen a Miller Cycle, and they will be learning as they go. And probably be more apt to reverse or mis-route some of the hoses than you would. Then you would be chasing ghosts forever if they do that.
 
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