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KingSprings is a familiar name but not over here. do you know how much in AUD a custom set is ?? i will emial them for sure.

do the MS coils have twin adjjustments like the JIC's i heard they are the best from the AUS rotary site...
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
did you end up gettin the K Mac springs ?

Im seriously looking into this if they are good to deal with. im looking drop of 3.4" front and 2.75" rear
[/b]

Not yet unfortunately, that's next on the list. I've just spent money on a new steering wheel and anti-theft quick release device, so perhaps in the next month or two.

As mentioned by Matsuda 9, King Springs make custom springs, but I wouldn't have a clue how much they are, but I bet they'd be a lot more than what K-Mac can do them for. I bought a set of replacement springs from King Springs for my previous 929, a 1984 HB sedan, and they were as dear as poison, not to mention I got the wrong springs, for both the front and back. Coz as with the HC the HB came with or without active suspension and the difference between the struts was the position of the saddle mount for the springs, but I got the wrong ones. Whether that's the fault of King Springs or the mob I bought them off tho' is not known. I spoke to King Springs direct and they were quite helpful, but only had height measurements for the rear, not the front, which I thought was a bit weird considering they made springs for both ends :blink:

K-mac have been around forever and have been big in the custom scene, King Springs have been around for a long time too, but I'm not sure how they are with the custom scene. The cost is a major factor and the fact that K-mac will do the measurements for you and make them and fit them on the spot is a plus. Also I don't know if King Springs make progressive springs, but only linear springs. Besides I can be there when the springs are being made so they're done to my specs, and Sydney's much closer than Queensland, for me at least :rolleyes: Obviously that won't be an option for you, being overseas and all, but when I get them done they'll have the specs for this car, if they don't already that is, and then it'll be easy to make a set for you. I probably won't go as low as you want on yours tho', coz I still want some comfort when I drive it around :)

I haven't decided yet whether to do the rear as well, coz the rear sits OK, I might do the front first and then decide on the rear later. When I get them done, I'll fill you in on what they're like to deal with, I'll also ask them at the time about shipping to Canada.

Cheers.
 

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thanks for the information. i sent them an email so hopefully they have the Luce measurements and if not i guess ill have to wait for you but im really trying to get this done for summer. the price for K Mac seems real good especially for progressive springs. my 929 did have the AAS suspension so i guess that has to been taken into consideration. i have replaced the struts with normal shocks. does all this make a difference in the spring ?

personally, a good even conservative drop on the Luce would be at least 1.75 front and 1" rear. the front sits so much higher than the rear.
 

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normal struts should make a difference

King Springs are a good mob, dealt with them for years when i had a small parts distribution business, just have to have a clear things with them as to make sure its all fine and dandy

usually the retail on Kings is AU$180-$300 custom once might set you back about AU$200 on top, though i have never ordered a custom set, only for coilovers and they had a right spring in the catalog that wasn't released yet

the MS coils that i have came accross are hight adjustable and bound/rebound adjustable with 6 levels, rears controlled on the side of the strut and fronts through the top

still will be interested to know how well they will fit
 

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40 mm drop too. i think id still need to go custom since all springs are the same drop front and back
 

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well i recieved an email from K-mac & it looks like they just sent me some general reply, no real answers but i guess their sayin it can be done ? more expensive than i thought @ $300US + $65 for shipping and most likely another duty charge. i guess it will come out to just under $500CAN for a set, almost half the price of some good coilovers...

"We manufacture the worlds largest range of coil springs.

Practically every make from 1950 to 2006

Some with uprated F/R anti-sway bars
(over 1,700 part numbers)

Also Camber and Caster adjuster kits - over 400
makes and models.

Springs are $300 (US) set 4

Sea Mail (aprox 6 - 8 weeks) $65 US

Payment can be made by Visa/MasterCard"
 

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that was from K-mac Aus
 

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I'm not sure if you guys know this or not but if the spring has dead coils they can be safely cut, in fact a LOT of people in the sho community do this. There is a spring made by moog for a taurus wagon and a lot of showners use these springs accept they cut 1.5 or two dead coils out to get the stock ride height. The spring is almost as good as any aftermarket accept it costs 30$ ea. Currently i cut half a coil on a stock progressive spring on the sho up front and got the drop i expected.


what i mean by dead coils is the coils that dont get used the ones taht are close to each other. the pic bellow will show better what i mean. The coil on the verry left has the most dead coils.

http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/eibach/eibach-tanabe2.jpg

So if you guys are buying custom springs jsut tell them to make like 4 dead coils or more so you can adjust the ride height at will safely.
 

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I'm not sure if you guys know this or not but if the spring has dead coils they can be safely cut, in fact a LOT of people in the sho community do this. There is a spring made by moog for a taurus wagon and a lot of showners use these springs accept they cut 1.5 or two dead coils out to get the stock ride height. The spring is almost as good as any aftermarket accept it costs 30$ ea. Currently i cut half a coil on a stock progressive spring on the sho up front and got the drop i expected.
what i mean by dead coils is the coils that dont get used the ones taht are close to each other. the pic bellow will show better what i mean. The coil on the verry left has the most dead coils.

http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/eibach/eibach-tanabe2.jpg

So if you guys are buying custom springs jsut tell them to make like 4 dead coils or more so you can adjust the ride height at will safely.
[/b]

ok ill give you a sumary on springs construction..

a spring is designed to take the weight of the vehicle across the entire length of the spring.

those "dead springs" as you call them are infact progressive rate spring section.
in a nut shell as the spring gets compressed as the car comes down on them there is more spring to stem the vehicle from bottoming them out. so they work harder to get the car back up. which aids handleing.

also depending on how you cut them can affect there ability to function properly as well. ie using an oxy torch to cut them will heat part of the spring up that is being used. once it cools again it changes the melecular structure of the spring which inturn makes it softer.
same happens when you angle grind them off as you still heat the steel.
cause the structure has changed they then sag as they cant suport whats being asked of them.
some even collapsing with dia consequenses. ie car spearing off the road cause the can drops permanently to one side.
cutting a spring also affects itsa ability to stay seated in its mounts when the suspension is extended as well.
when ever buying lowered springs you should also buy the shocky equivilent to hinder spring mount dislocation when the shocks are extended.

in australia it is illegal to use cut springs on a vehicle for this very reason. its dangerous and being spring it will also affect the cars ability to stop as well as suspension has a critical point in brakeing.

picture of a cut spring collapsing (they were in my mates car)-

 

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I agree with most of what you have said, but i disagree a LOT with the fact that you cant cut dead coils, if you know what you are doings I.E. cutting them with a bandsaw and oil coolant, it is completely safe and yes if you cut too mutch it can bottom out but thats with any lowering spring on a stock shock, if its too low it can bottom out. Most dead coil sit linearly and because of that they cant pop out of the mount. And it is true taht they are progrssive and work harder to bring the car up, BUT they dont work as mutch and that why when compared (safety wise) with working coils it is MUCH MUCH safer, and as long as you know the limit, for example only one dead coil or two then its alright, that is if you cut it right. I know shos that are run as daily drivers on moog cut cargo coils for over 30k on them and no problem. And cut aftermarket springs that have over clocked over 100k.
 

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i can see how those coils collapsed, theres only 5 of them. 929 springs are way larger with more cois. my front coils were cut from the top which is the best place to cut them. the rear 929 coils have alot of dead coils and i think im gonna cut close to 2" off them. either that or buy the 1.5" progressive [email protected] springs and cut them lower, which is worse ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I'll add my two cents worth :)I had a car with which I had cut the springs, both front and rear, the car was heavily modified from engine to diff. The main reasons I cut the springs (I got them done by a mechanical engineer) was because it was the cheapest option and going back close to twenty years ago, I would have been hard pressed to find anyone who could make proper lowered springs for the car, it was a 1978 Mazda 121L. Although I chopped the springs it was intended as a temporary solution only, but they stayed like that until the car was stolen and trashed, about ten years ago.

Anyway, I do have to agree with sim_rx3, although personally I never had any problems with the springs at all, except when I jacked up the front end they would drop out at the top, which was only a probblem in those instances. I mentioned that the car was heavily modified, in it I had a Leyland P76 4.4 litre V8, Toyota Celica cast iron gearbox, and a Ford 8" LSD. And the springs were cut by 2" at the front and 1.25" at the rear with Tokico gas struts. I mention this to give you a picture of the overall setup to show that if the springs are cut properly then it "shouldn't" be a hazard. And I did drive this car hard at times too. The ride was a bit harsh tho', but it stuck to corners like shit to a blanket :D

Having said all that, there is one major thing that has been overlooked; insurance. On the old Mazda I only had third party, but my current one, the HC, I have it fully comprehensively insured, so any mods or changes I make are done within the standards and done properly, not to mention legally, and the insurance company is notified of the changes too. Coz if you have an accident and try to claim insurance and it is reveraled that the springs were illegal, then you can say goodbye to the insurance and if it was your fault then you're really in deep shite :blush: Things might be different in the US and Canada, but I doubt it.

Something worth bearing in mind.

Cheers
 
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